Curse

Aug 03, 2005, 07:28 AM // 07:28

this spell is a lyer

Disoblige · Aug 04, 2005, 04:01 PM // 16:01

The spirit works the moment it is placed on the area. it does not remove your enchaments/hexes when u leave and enter it's range

Dark Kanaye · Aug 06, 2005, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Hmm...heres an idea...interrupt the ranger thats trying to cast this if you hate it so much. Cry of Frustration, anyone?

BigTru · Aug 06, 2005, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Warrior with Wild Blow + Interrupt Ranger = No Nature's Renewal spam.

Disoblige · Aug 06, 2005, 07:37 AM // 07:37

You know that R/Me are usually spamming it. i doubt u can interrupt them because they have anti-interrupt stance.

BigTru · Aug 06, 2005, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disoblige

You know that R/Me are usually spamming it. i doubt u can interrupt them because they have anti-interrupt stance.

Dur... That's the reason why you bring a Warrior with Wild Blow.

Zeru · Aug 06, 2005, 08:35 AM // 08:35

You can design a character to make sure that a ranger never completes a spirit cast.

However, what's the point? Good teams won't have just one person with spirits they need.

Dark Kanaye · Aug 08, 2005, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Then make sure you have more than one person that can interrupt it.

Disoblige · Aug 10, 2005, 08:41 AM // 08:41

People think u can interrupt a ranger team from dropping a bunch of renewal. they r probably haven't fought a decent ranger group

michaeldt · Aug 10, 2005, 11:24 AM // 11:24

unfortunately, these are usually cast when the enemy is out of aggro range, but within the spirits range. few rangers cast during battle unless they are getting a beating, so interupts are useless.

this spell would be a lot "fairer" if it removed all conditions too

no more poison arrow spam

Disoblige · Aug 10, 2005, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

yes, quite powerfull indeed.
but if it wasn't around, enchantment stacking would probably be rampant...
and that prospect doesn't sound fun either.

Think of it this way, elementarist , mesmer and necro needs hex and enchantments to beat warrior/ranger. enchanments and hex are important for spell casters

Quicken ziper+ oath shot+ nature renewal
every 10 sec u can cast another nature renewal.
This is how fast ranger group spam their sprits.

Aug 10, 2005, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Is that a fact that if you are not in the area when it was dropped, and then you enter its range, you keep your enchantment?

Disoblige · Aug 11, 2005, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resin

Is that a fact that if you are not in the area when it was dropped, and then you enter its range, you keep your enchantment?

yes. i'm positive.

Tarot Ribos · Aug 11, 2005, 08:54 PM // 20:54

I've got a Primary mesmer that loves his hexes, and I don't have too much to complain against Nature's Renewal except this:

Does it really have to remove ALL Hexes and Enchantments? 2x Casting Time I can deal with. Removing some of them, I can deal with. But seriously... it's a MASSIVE effect. And it can be spammed.

So... possible solutions without completely nerfing it...

1) Increase the recharge time to something less spammable.
2) Increase the energy cost to something that can't be spammed for too long
3) Change the effect to only remove 1 hex and 1 enchantment from each character when it's cast.

#3 isn't likely. And even I don't like it. #1 seems like the most reasonable solution... if you want to build a team of NR-spamming rangers, go ahead. You've stopped the 1-2 mesmers and the 2-3 monks with your whole team. Those other guys just got a little annoyed. The problem with #2 is the Ranger Expertise attribute... since that would decrease the energy cost anyways.

NR is overpowered in PvP. Not too much so, but enough to merit some changes. That's my view, as a hexing mesmer.

Kampfkeks · Aug 11, 2005, 09:49 PM // 21:49

The problem is not the recharge time, it is the use of oath shot.
You can boost the recharge time up to 3600 seconds. Yet a single mere oath shot could just recharge it.

However, Natures Renewal Spam is relying on Energy. So why not try to shut it down with heavy energy denial? Ooops, that would actually require you to bring your mesmer or a few Warriors with Fear Me!. Or as they rely on oath shot just prevent getting hit. A bad placed oath shot in fact blocks out the ranger spamming spirits for a few seconds (10 seconds atleast, more probably up to 20 seconds).
About allready placed spirits. You can go all suicide with edge of extinction. Or you could simply focus on the spirits until they are gone. When your energy denial is set up good enough they won't be pumping out one spirit after the other. And as they are at least one member short, more likely 2-3 members... you stand a good chance.
This is not 100 % chance on winning but nothing is 100 % in competition.

The problem is not the missing counter, the problem is the people neglecting certain classes and skills because they are either gimp/newbish/alien to them.

Tarot Ribos · Aug 11, 2005, 10:01 PM // 22:01

*smacks self*

How did I forget Oath Shot?

Right. So scratch the increase of recharge time.

Yep. Upped energy cost is the way to go. Or decrease the number of hexes/enchantments it removes.

False Prophet · Aug 12, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

I completely agree this is far too powerful in PvP, especially in coordinated fighting class-heavy teams. Gear up a group with only quick cast enchantments or signet builds and only take warriors and rangers and with some decent secondary choices, the other team doesn't stand a chance. Countering? Forget about it - this thing has one of the largest area affects in the game and if it goes down, rangers will just run away and recast it from a safe distance (using storm chaser, dodge, and/or escape to pull the distance).

This spell is the single reason I don't play elementalists in PvP anymore - the only real elementalist counter (aside from running out of power LONG before anyone is dead) is ether prodigy and that spell causes exhaustion, does damage at the end, isn't really as effective at a prolonged attack as an attunement (not to mention leaves you exhausted very quickly), and it can be still be interrupted or shattered after it's cast, where the spirit has to be slain and is usually so far away that nobody can hit it or get to it. Most of the time, I played an ice mage or earth mage with wards, though I've tried the offensive route, too (I like air/earth with elemental attunement, but this spell completely counters it).

Flowah · Aug 15, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05

If you nerf this, then the Healing Ball comes back into fashion. <<

Yeah, let's see them healing ball with an ele or two with maelstrom. Every damn "build" has a viable counter except spirit spammers. Every time I've gone to HoH it's just my team vs however many spirit spammers. It's just a race really, to see which spirit team can get to the altar first and spam the most spirits and heal area. Yay....

icecomet · Aug 15, 2005, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Yes, this skill is completely overpowered - it should AT LEAST be made elite, if not nerfed further.

Everyone who says "kill the spirit" or "interrupt the ranger" obviously hasn't tried to do that themselves - its damn hard for several reasons to keep nr off the ground:

1.hard to find in the first place
2. oath shot
3. if you dont ever target players cos you're finding spirits, you're dead.

Think about it, how is it balanced? - the enemy team gives 1 ranger a job of pressing 2 different buttons - pretty much effortlessly, and your whole team has to run around searching for spirits and trying to kill the ranger who has probably got several different stances for different situations. It renders your team pretty much useless if you have to kill a spirit that keeps popping up constantly..

clonmac · Aug 15, 2005, 10:27 PM // 22:27

I agree that this spell is extremely powerful in PvP, almost to the point where I think it is borderline being elite (if only for the fact that you can't combine it with Oath Shot).

But really when you think about it, the reason why some spirits have some pretty powerful effects to them is because of the fact that they effect BOTH teams! People sometimes don't realize this. If you want to win in HoH and you are coming across a lot of spirit spamming groups, then customize your group's build to play on the terms that the common spirits that are being used are no longer effective.

If you build a team that isn't heavy with enchantments and hexes, then you have nothing to worry about. To have a well balanced team you need a little of everything. These flavor of the month teams like the Air ele's, the smiting monks, the NR spammers, the reason why they only last for a little while is because people adjust to their usage. It's the well balanced teams that adjust to their surroundings that stay for the long haul. By balanced team I mean one that covers the all the bases, like energy denial, interruptions, degens, healing, spike damage, etc.

When you get all those things in a group, depending on what you are faced with, one of those roles will become more important that the other. Then that is the area that you must concentrate on as you charge into the fray.

If they are spamming NR, they lay low with the enchantments for a bit in the battle, and concentrate on the energy denial of the monk so that he can't use his skills that are tailored for the use of NR. Then you can take out the Ranger with your damage dealers. Once the ranger is down you can cast your enchantments and hexes to really take charge because those will obviously be their weakness because of the fact that they probably were relying on NR for their hex removal.

The game is all about strategy and being able to adjust while in battle.

On a side note, I think a good change that wouldn't imbalance things would be for spirits to be affected by hexes. I think they should be affected by hexes like Conjure phantasm and life siphon, etc. Not conditions like bleeding/poison/disease because they are not fleshy. But I don't see why degen hexes shouldn't effect them. Correct me if I am out of place there.

Or if that change isn't made, then maybe change it so that spirits are like Horrors and fiends. In the sense that when they are made, they slowly lose health until their time is up. And the higher level the spirit, they lose health at a much slower rate. This will prevent spirit spammers from atleast not putting some points into their wilderness survival, making them less effecient at markmenship or whatever. Maybe you could have spirits with a set number at 2 health degen. So then when you spam a low level spirit, they will lose health quicker than a higher level spirit that would have more health.

...my 2 cents